Hoops

NBL owners discuss equalisation

Let's hope they do get paid ;)

148
They are not. One is a scholar and a gentleman, the other is a scoundrel. I'll leave it up to you to decide who is who.

151
They might be meh, double meh in your opinion but they still get paid.
Ball will be top 3 draft pick and be outstanding, you have no idea really.

Boone broke, Anderson broken, Blanchfield can hoop but shouldn't be paid top $.
Olgilvy meh. Dech and Grida, double meh.
Pay the cap by all means but that side is shit sorry to say. Melo I have never been impressed by. NBA #1 pick? Says how bad his opposition is.
He's 18 he will develop for sure by maybe in another 2-3 years. He will get beat up in the NBA at that age and lack of defence and shooting ability.

Hawks owe no money, it’s just the current owner likes keeping his money tight. I believe there is an other interested party but won’t put money in unless he gets control.

Boone, Blanchfield, Ogilvy, Anderson while not on Prather, Cotton type of money would still be on dollars. Dech and Grida were required at Perth but also left so could be useful money as well, while Naar came with highly rated credentials from college so could be on reasonable as well. In saying all that it doesn’t mean you always perform to your wage packet.

It doesn’t take that much to get to the cap.

The Hawks owe money everywhere allegedly.

I mean the Hawks probably don't deserve it. It's there to help make the team more competitive, not line the owners pockets. Brooks has been out for the season for how many weeks now, and no attempt to replace him. Melo Ball, their biggest draw, is being paid for the most part by the League. And if it's really a case of fans not turning up for the games, well, that is really on them isn't it. Much the same as it was for Townsville. Sure, it sucks for the people who do turn up (and pour beers on opposing players), but the fairweather Johnson's don't really deserve a team.

I'm sure the GM of the Kings hasn't seen any money from luxury tax receipts

Coincidentally I spoke to someone who is close to a GM of one of the NBL clubs and his exact quote was "we have not seen 1 single cent of the Luxury tax".

Because Matt Campbell has no interest in winning.

He is on record saying the Hawks are there for developing players, nothing about winning or even trying for the playoffs.

They are happy to be the sideshow.

Illawarra owner wasn’t paying so a deal was worked out between club and league. Illawarra is a small community re basketball, information gets out.

#096
What is equal in the world let at all sport, there will always be have and have nots. The tax seems to be working ok with all sides this season with reasonable rosters, Yes the top three go probably deeper but there is always going to that affect. The league has put pressure on Illawarra just recently to get two more imports and helped them fund it. NZ and Brisbane have good rosters but injuries and poor form has kept them crap. Illawarra have an inexperienced coach which probably didn’t help. All other sides are doing good, doesn’t mean you don’t lose games and win others, f..k Adelaide smashed Perth in Perth two weeks a go.

You make some good points about Perth. We should expand on those.

The points system had mediocre players and teams, Perth used it to keep their players and NZ had the tall black side plus imports. No one else got a look in.

Also, remember the years that Rotnei Clarke and Brian Elbows Conklin were winning MVP. That is what Perth fans want. MVP Dan Grida!

The points system had mediocre players and teams, Perth used it to keep their players and NZ had the tall black side plus imports. No one else got a look in. You want a decent league spend the money on teams, promotion etc. or you can go back to the crap that was dished up with all decent players heading overseas for more money and the league folding. At least if it folds now LK had a go, not like all the naysayers on here.

There is no points cap now and with teams like Perth now only breaking even is there really any point?
LK has allowed this and we are back to the future it's out of control.
If you have any issues with the points cap go read Bob Bellotti's books and then you might understand. Unlikely how ever.
Strange thing was that it worked.
Back to the future.

Yes Perth were the ones who decided all those years ago "we are professionals" and we have to train twice a day back in the day.
That's when the salaries went up and up and the likes of the smaller clubs were kicked out.
Finally the salary cap had a points cap to assist.
Since (as mentioned above) LK has taken over the salaries are exorbitant continue to climb.
The NBL was equalised and everyone shared the same costs for travel, flights, accom etc. Once again LK in and it became effe tively an arms race to see who could spend the most.

Bendant dies you will be back to challenge stadium.

It was reported in a financial article that Wildcats made 1M PROFIT 3 seasons ago. Nothing has changed since then

Yes so the cats were a basket case, wealthy owner turns up bails them out, spends more than every one else for championships but when other clubs do it the league won’t survive. All you people that can predict the future please put out the lotto numbers. Bendant dies you will be back to challenge stadium.

You can say the same about Sydney, you just don’t want to believe it.

Perth still spending big, White wasn’t coming back till they paid what he wanted. White would’ve gone back to Korea where they pay big in a lot easier competition than nbl.
The pecking order of spending would be United,Cats, Kings and Phoenix would be up there as well.

LOL Perth is a poor club.

Cotton the highest paid import in the Nbl, brought in mid-season to guarantee finals.

Norton and Kay brought over with an offer the Hawks couldn't get close to.

Until a few years ago Perth out-spent everyone, propped up by a sugar daddy owner.

Perth now sooking because Melbourne and Sydney are beating them at their own game.

Equalisation, to be equal, isn't happening because it isn't possible. This is as stupid a pursuit as I could even imagine, a total waste of time and effort.

If we want a fair and reasonable league then I am sure rules just need to be adhered to, there are rules, right?

As for everyone on here pointing out one team's list against another team's budget and yet other team's win/loss records etc... etc... Well, I agree with KET, it's funny how Cairns right now are probably the hot team no one wants to play!!

Sydney had one of the best lists for a number of years, but couldn't get it done, Melbourne, the same, only one team can win the championship so there will be 8 teams who what exactly, are losers, really let's get a grip guys...

Nothing is equal, there are rules, apply them and let teams do their best to roll the dice and try to win every game they can, there is so much more to get right rather than try to make things impossibly 'EQUAL'...

^^
Exactly, Kay and Norton went there for the love of Gleeson, no money was involved.

Why else do you think Oliver chose Cairns over Perth??? It wasn't for the money. I'd imagine he was guaranteed a start and minutes. Something Cairns can do, but Perf never would.

# 867 so right.

# 862 go back to lawn bowls, it’s more your budget of a sport.

Yet a poor club like Perth is 2nd on the ladder and perennial championship contenders. Perth so poor they can't even offer Oliver enough to convince him to sign on cause he won't play for free and the pure motivations of great culture like Cotton, Kay and Co. Just those evil Sydney and Melbourne city slickers. Well at least with all this attention on Sydney, and their iffy form, Melbourne can get away with the largest payroll in NBL history and no one is saying boo about it. Long, Melo, Prather - all 5 star imports, at least on reputation as Prather has been so-so. Add Goulding and Money Makin' Mitch McCarron who are on good coin, plus the ability to have savy vets like Pledgehammer and attract Illi away from NZ and Jo Lual Acuil away from Euro ball. No one cares though but wait and see come finals time. LK gonna make it happen.

It's much like the "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" thing. If talent does work hard, then tough shit.

Money doesn't buy championships on its own, but combine it with ownership that has a clue and a budget team isn't going to keep up.

Yes, the early years were competitive, but a lot of older contracts were still on the books so the effects of the new cap weren't as apparent yet.

Further to my point under the LK era in one season.

- Cairns have finished 2nd on the ladder.
- Hawks have finished 4th on the ladder and went on to the Grand Final.
- Wildcats were dead last in December that season before their turn-around.
- Melbourne, Sydney and to an extent NZ were deemed amongst the leagues highest spenders and none of them made the playoffs.

Sydney went on to have some stacked teams under Andrew Gaze and made the playoffs once.

Having money does not guarantee you success.

Not having money does not guarantee you failure.

Funny part is Cairns are giant killers at the moment. Budget is getting it done

Good points love broken Love broker.

Do we really need to revisit league equalisation at all?

The equalisation payments are there to enable the bottom teams to be able to afford the salary floor, basically keeping Illawarra and Cairns alive.

In this end it is successful, they are alive.

In fact Cairns right now are in the playoffs, Illawarra have been gifted the LaMelo sideshow in addition to the hand out payments they receive. What better endorsement that the league equalisation efforts are working.

That too.

The Hawks get owned by the Wildcats every year

How many ownership changes have there been at the Hawks? It's too hard to keep up.

Cairns got Newbill from breakers and have been able to keep him, they can spend on there imports. The truth is Kelly wanted a better point guard than Trimble and got the player he wanted. Cairns top six would be on good money but then the rest falls away. Injuries to there stars would hurt them.

Illawarra owner doesn’t want to spend, hopefully he moves on as I believe there is another interested party but they want control.

If Perth planned to spend like Sydney maybe they could sign LeBron!

I did think of that, but surely not. Machado, Cotton, White, Kay, Oliver starting 5. Surely not

Cheats ! Cheats ! Cheats !

"That was the last time I saw so much shit on one page.".
Did you really check out your dear old Nan's toilet etiquette? You're a good lad!

The league is shaping up nicely with greater import retention, reminds me of the days when we had Grace, Crawford, Loggins, Davis, Rucker, Copelane etc etc who were stalwarts of the NBL.

If Perth plan to spend like United, no reason why that isn't a real possibility. I imagine Oliver/Machado will be on Long/Melo money after this season, and Cotton would be one of the best paid dudes in the league.

"If Martin retires and Cotton gets his citizenship, then Machado would be a perfect target for Perth"

I did think of that, but surely not. Machado, Cotton, White, Kay, Oliver starting 5. Surely not.

If Martin retires and Cotton gets his citizenship, then Machado would be a perfect target for Perth

It will be interesting to see what happens with Machado and Oliver, I would presume other teams would offer them big money after this season whilst Cairn's will try to do their best to retain them. Can see Perth going after Oliver and not sure about Machado, maybe targeted by SEM? Kings and United have two of the best PG's in the league, Cat's can't get him as we would retain Cotton and Terrico and go after a big so no room.

Hope Cairns can somehow hold onto both of them, but under the current situation it's hard to see.

Exactly, a draft is a restriction of trade, even the afl draft is a lot more flexible, once you done your two years basically you can go anywhere, clubs don’t want players there that don’t want to be there. The players union in the afl is strong and they get what they want. What the draft and trading does is give the afl all year publicity where as the nrl dies off for a few months.

What would mid-season trades achieve?

Draft would be hard to do, how do you make players nominate? Wouldnt the good ones just say nah ill pick my destination thanks i wont go in the draft? Wouldnt the really good ones be in Europe or NBA a year or two later? Would any enforceability deter people joining the NBL?

Lets say none of those are issues, what happens when you draft this Australian potential stud who isn't going to the NBA/Europe, you spend a few years developing him and then he's out of contract - what's to prevent him just going to a big market club who can afford to poach him? Essentially making the worse clubs feeder clubs as we have now with Cairns.

So we've got this dilemma where we want good talent to be in the league, but it's a hefty price that only half the clubs can afford.

Do we make it competitive and let go of the talent? If that occurs, will that diminish the league in the eyes of the world and make it harder to lure top talent that improves the leagues revenue?

To be totally honest, I think it's worth considering semi-radical ideas such as 1) a "hard cap amount"
2) A franchise tag for all teams that allows them to pay 1 player up to xx within hard cap and up to xx outside of hard cap; ie, means rich clubs can't go outbidding teams on several players
3) All teams put in a pool of XX cash which is used to pay for partial amount of draft player salaries, the higher the pick the more the player receives. This means the league could have the hard cap amount fairly high to attract top talent, and the top teams via their success end up paying part of the less successful clubs salary cap
4) The total league salary (including money out of hard cap via franchise tag) is averaged, those spending higher are taxed and distributed to the lower spenders
5) An expectation is set that clubs are capable of paying the draft pool money and spend on players to a minimum extent within a certain amount of the hard cap; keeping in mind receiving money via 3 if they're not big spenders

I get what the Anon above is trying to say regarding other leagues, but you cant compare the NBL with them. Those leagues you mentioned are long running leagues (over 50 years in the case of the Bundesliga) and have established teams with strong supporter bases and the talent is spread across 36 teams and 2 divisions.

There is also no competition in most European countries for supporters, here there is AFL, NRL, Cricket, A-League households only have a certain amount to spend on memberships etc and if your home team isnt competitive you wont go.

The Kings, Cats and UTD can spend millions over the "Cap" as the rules allow it, but when its only a 4 team league in 10 years time because Hawks, Cairns and Adelaide fans have given up on an uneven league..will it be worth it?

I think mid season trades would be very harsh on a lot of players at the bottom of rosters. Imagine just being told you have to move from Perth to NZ just to earn 50k... I also have issues with a draft as i don't think it is fair on players.