Hoops

Is it Time for the Hawks to fold?

It's got nothing to do with circling with glee.

Article just proves I was right in my assessment.

It would be sad for a club like the Hawks to fold. But at the end of the day, whilst it takes a rich owner to run an NBL Franchise, the fans need to turn and show that it's worth while.

This is not a new team trying to build a fan base. They should have a die-hard loyal fanbase. But they just don't.
They failed to support the team as a community model, they failed to support it with a moderately wealthy owner, and they have failed with a broke-ass owner.

You can't just keep sitting at home moaning, saying "if a billionaire comes along and rescues the club", and "if the club becomes successful..."

The OP is still baseless, but for all the vultures, circling about, wringing their talons in glee:

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6592643/hawks-owner-on-shaky-ground-after-nbl-ultimatum/

I don't think the Hawks should always get a next star.

No it isn't. They can house the future next stars and draw in the social media Clicks and views. That's important in the modern day model, it's not all about fans in the stands

Hello go nbl

"They have been an embarrassment for years"

A bit harsh?

Looking at ladders for last 10 years, Hawks finished last once (as have Cairns and Townsville). Adelaide have finished last 3 times, Sydney twice and Brisbane twice. Sydney have also finished 2nd last 3 times.

Hawks have made semi finals 5 times and went on to GF twice.

So, yes, this year hasn't been the best for the Hawks. A huge spotlight was thrown on them with Lamelo. There is a lot of gossip around with his injury. and, as a fan, I would've loved to see him play more. But que sera sera.

It hurt when they lost their leading point scorer who came to the Hawks with less fanfare but has good credentials (Brooks). And who was starting to find his straps. Other injuries didn't help. The (eventual) replacements weren't the golden salvation people were hoping for (well, Hawks fans - I don't know how many other teams would've been happy if the Hawks were beating them all on their way to another finals series.).

And speaking about the results: there were several games where the Hawks were within a few points with minutes left. Sure, they had a couple of blowout losses but most clubs do. And they beat the league leaders. So despite their lowly position on the ladder, they have the ability to push other teams. And they "own" the current 3rd-placed team!).

Next year? Maybe a lot depends on how much Matt Flinn has learnt (if he is the Coach next year). I know from experience that it's a bit of a quantum leap going from Asst Coach to Head Coach, even just running subs (never mind plays ect. And nowhere did they prep me for how to deal with pretty tough, fiesty 15yo boys getting teary when they lost a close semi-final - the emotional investment!). And that was just juniors. So, if Matty can reflect and improve, that will help. Then there are the players...

As to why fans don't turn up? I dunno. I do turn up. And I pay for pretty good seats. People say it's expensive, especially for families. But a lot of that could be down to the monopoly WEC has in Wollongong. However, the WEC is well-located: near the beach, restaurants ect. But it is eccy. And public transport isn't good (which affects a potential population that is spread up and down the coast - I know quite a few people come up from Kiama and Nowra. Nowra is over an hour away and public transport is non-existent). And the food is eccy and their coffee sucks!

Not that big.
There is Perthworld, myself and our little bro.
Our step mother has appeared a few times.
And yes you can tell by the way we post that we are all munters..

"Yeah, imagine local fans not wanting to turn up to watch a guy who wasn't ready to help his team win and was always going to be gone by the time he was. Strange. "

Crowd numbers for this season are consistent with the idea behind this comment from Cram. Since Ball stopped playing with the Hawks, their average home crowd is up 14% - to 3,522 per game. Prior to that, it was 3,078 per game.

That post Ball average is boosted by the large crowd for the Sydney game but even setting that game aside, crowds are up on average since Ball has gone. And four of their five best attended home games this season have been since Ball finished.

Might be a coincidence, linked to when different teams have played them at home, but interesting nonetheless.

Another Sydney game next weekend should boost their season crowd figure again. Anyone know what they averaged last year?

How big is Perthworlds family?

In the words of Gretel Killeen it's time to go Illawarra.

Bendigo Bank

LOL at the Bendigo suggestion. Come on bro! Nowhere near good enough.

Hobart, Canberra, Newcastle, Wellington, Christchurch and Western Sydney would all be better options.

Where are the corporate sponsors coming from for Bendigo?

I don't want the Hawks to fold. They have a proud and gutsy history.

But the Hawks under Matt Campbell have been utter trash.

1) People don't attend, how hard is it to fill a small stadium?

2) Their teams have been trash. Even when gifted the possible next #1 Draft pick they still F'd it up as spooners and don't even fill the stadium, more people (opposition supporters) attend their road games to see their players than Hawks' fans. Because of the focus on Ball, Naar and Grida have regressed, the only actual player development happened when Ball went down and Naar and Dech stood up.

3) Matt Campbell has come out to state that player development is their priority NOT actually winning. This organisation doesn't even want to win. They just exist to exist and hopefully make a name of churning out a few players with decent stats because they get more minutes.

4) Import choices of washed up Boone, washed up Cedric Jackson, Prime Jordair Jett which is washed up anyway. Their choices are trash.

I don't want to see Hawks fold but they need changes top down.

Someone left Melo in their fantasy team

No way Robbo.

Tassie seems as good an option as any for team number 10.

If there's a suitable owner with a suitable plan then go for it.

Then stop at 10- 10 is enough.

If the league is seriously booming and still growing rapidly in 5 years once there's 10 teams, then I'd take a serious look at relocating or replacing Illawarra before I go to an 11 team comp.

I still think with a healthy Aaron Brooks and a bit more time to get used to the NBL would've made the Hawks push for playoffs. Unfortunate injury that derailed their season. Positively they've gotten more playing time into their younger guys and with another preseason to look at imports to fit their system for next season they can give it another crack.

"AFAIK Geelong basketball has said they will never have another NBL team. Currently true? You would have to ask them."

"Well, that's the Geelong Basketball Association/Geelong United. Nothing to say the league wouldn't want a team out there, with an owner who has nothing to go with Geelong Basketball."

That's exactly right. If another group/person decided they wanted to have a team in Geelong, and had a partnership with the AFL club, you'd think it woulnd't matter what the local association had to say (though you'd want to get them onside eventually)

If Geelong come back, they can have the prodigal son Joey wright back. Please, take him.

While basketball has a big junior sport in the Illawarra, most parents watch rugby league during the winter over basketball in the summer. It’s about balancing their budgets and so many outside activities out side in summer cost zilch.

I don't think the Hawks should fold but I've said to Hawks fans for years, if you want a team, YOU HAVE TO TURN UP.

In answer to that I hear a lot of excuses. It's like they want to just watch their team online for free and feel like they have a team to follow that way. Well, there might come a day when that option isn't open to them and they'll blame everyone else.

Regional teams are sustainable with the 4-5k average crowds, only if there is a legitimate luxury tax system. My major concern with the current NBL is the difference in talent between the top and bottom. Very few fans are going to want to support a regional team which cannot compete at all (hawks). Not necessarily for titles, but you would want to be winning the majority of home games and making playoffs fairly often. This gives the illusion that the team has a shot.

Geelong is one of the few places where an AFL/NBL partnership could really work. I would suggest if there was any inclination towards putting a team in Geelong they would need to involve the Cats (and build a new stadium).

Geelong are good at supporting their team - so many pay for Cats memberships, would they have money for an NBL membership?

Regional teams are an issue in respect of crowd numbers, sponsorship and infrastructure generally. There just isn't the money there. Even Cairns have had a fair bit of local government assistance.

Essentially in 3-4 years, we'd be hoping for major capital city teams to average around the 10k mark (Perth, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane [Bullets won't get there]), second team to a major market (SEM) around that 7k mark and regional teams around the 5-6k mark (cairns/illawarra/canberra/hobart [perhaps tassie expectations a bit higher]).

LV: I think we are all expecting Tassie is numero 10 mate.

There's got to be some sort of plan in respect of the Hawks. Spending is only going to increase, expenses are only going to increase.

When we talk about "critical" locations to have a team, we're talking the major capitals. If you don't have a team in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, you're not a legitimate league (One of many reasons people took the piss out of the NBL, the years without Sydney or Brissy).

10-12 teams is ideal, 8 lacks variety. 9,11 is acceptable for a few years but the lack of even numbers pains humanity.

I suspect there's going to be a bit of a rule of thumb: Over the next 1-2 years teams should achieve 7k average; 3-4 years 9-10k average. If you're getting 5-6k average in a few years you've got work to do, if you're getting 3-5k average you're in trouble.

Only exception I can imagine to this is Cairns with how well they are run which excuses the limitation of infrastructure. Hopefully in a few years some money will open up to expand it to 7k capacity.

To that extent, what are our expectations for 3-4 years time?

Adelaide: Average 9-10k
Sydney: Average 12-13k
SEM: Average 7k (given a few years to establish base)
NZ: Average 8-10k
Wellington: Average 3-4k initially, a few years later 5-6k
Tasmania: 4-5k intially, 6-7k after a few years
Perth: They're fine
Melbourne: They're fine - average 9-10k?
Brisbane: 5.5-7k
Cairns: Hope for CCC expansion to 7k? Average 5.5-6k?
Illawarra/Canberra: 5-6k if they are to survive

FWIW, I think the NBL should tread very slowly.

9 teams is enough for another year or two.

10 should be the max, and let's take another year or two to make the right decision on where number 10 should be.

How much cash did the OP lose on betting Illawarra would win a certain number of games this year?

Canberra is already being looked at as team 11.

Walsh I’m not sure has sole rights to all of nz, but Wellington should be team 11-12. The Breakers becoming Auckland.

I just wish everyone's appetite for a second NZ team would match Larry Kesselman's, who doesn't see the appeal of a city of 500k population holding a team. Wellington's been waiting for one for over a decade now.

As mentioned above, relocating the Hawks to Camberra is something that I can see happening. They are already testing the waters there by playing a couple of games and its been quite succesful.

They would probably need to change their name to Cannons for the history, retain the 3 championships won, honor the Hawks title, create a history that combines both clubs, and maybe play a couple of games in Wollongong for goodwill. Not that the folks in Wollongong really care that much anyway.

Hopefully a new owner can steer this club in the right direction whether they stay or relocate.

Hawks were in the GF a few seasons back, don’t recall that being a bad thing.

B-Ball, 16 teams is way too many. I think once you start getting above 12 you are really stretching it. I understand it is a bit of a boom for the NBL at the moment, but you have always got to be planning for the lower periods of interest too.

If the NBL can sustain 12 teams without losing any/moving any for say 5 years, AND there is a market knocking the door down for a license, then maybe it becomes a consideration.

For OP, LaMelo's early exit the final dagger!

1. Adelaide
2. Brisbane
3. Cairns
4. Illawarra
5. Melbourne
6. New Zealand
7. Perth
8. South East Melbourne
9. Sydney

10. Tassie are next

11. Canberra (a must)
12. 2nd NZ team

Take the Blitz to Canberra to help gauge interest. If they enter the league, they should be the Cannons, nothing else. Their 3 titles would still count too.

League could definitely be sustainable with more than 12 teams, but it needs to be a slow growth. 1 team every 2-3 years.

If the right buyers can be found and finance the team appropriately, add 4 teams from:

1. Townsville (absolutely tragic they folded, the Reptile Rumbles were awesome and the QLD region of the NBL is bare with just Brisbane and Cairns)
2. Gold Coast (if the Brendan Joyce situation didn't happen, they might still be around)
3. Newcastle (maybe, Victorian teams have had 100 chances, why not Newcastle?)

Or 2 more NZ teams

16 teams....then stop!

And don't talk to me about diluting the talent pool. More teams means more spots for locals and imports. More locals will have the motivation to get to the NBL and more imports will be tempted to move here.

Come at me!

Yeah, imagine local fans not wanting to turn up to watch a guy who wasn't ready to help his team win and was always going to be gone by the time he was. Strange.

Clubs go through good & bad times (Sydney went through this same stage 3/4 years ago), there is a few rumours going on with new ownership of the club & if it happens it can only get better.
Don’t see a problem with their Australian players & the club has a vision with the younger players for the future. The more the younger players play now will make them better for the future & if the club can keep them they will have a good Australian core group.
Imports have been the issue & if the Hawks had better quality they would be so much better off
Lamelo has been good for the league but he was never going to make them championship contenders with no quality imports around him.
The crowds haven’t been that bad considering the draw that was handed to the Hawks & are now starting to appreciate the younger brigade playing more minutes.

does Cranbourne/pakenham have:

Bendigo. Brand new 4000 capacity stadium. 10 courts. Largest complex in the state. Largest grass roots competition in the state. SEABL/NBL1 strong team with strong history. WNBL team. Solid sponsors e.g. Bendigo Bank.

May be a stupid question but why does Canberra always get overlooked as a spot for a new team? Obviously has the population base.

Should they move the hawks up the road permanently to Canberra?

I think with 2 NZ teams, Australia should on paper have the capacity to field 10 teams to make a 12 team league. The league should then have a strict rule of not expanding past that point as it's unsustainable.

Bendigo. Brand new 4000 capacity stadium. 10 courts. Largest complex in the state. Largest grass roots competition in the state. SEABL/NBL1 strong team with strong history. WNBL team. Solid sponsors e.g. Bendigo Bank.

The city- growth corridor. Representative for regional Victoria. Exponential population growth.

Bendigo Hawks.

Either need a 10 or 12 team league, if the Hawks fold we can probably say bye to the 12 team league.

There's probably room for a second NZ team, I don't think there's room for any additional Australian teams after Tasmania. A third Victorian team? 2 is enough for the medium term. Sydney? Known for not being a sports state. Qld? Bris/Cairns is enough. WA/SA forget it. Canberra? Can't see that working.

Bendigo hahaha

If they didn’t show up when Lamelo was there the arena is going to be a ghost town now.

Bendigo Hawks has a good ring to it.

I was wondering if you could take a mouth fog horn to a NBL game, to use when the opposition is shooting free throws, or would it get taken of me?

NOTE: im talking about a MOUTH fog horn, you blow into it and it makes a deep fog horn noise, no where near as loud as a air horn, it, just makes a deep horn noise, that isn't too loud. NOT a actual Air Horn that uses compressed air (that could damage peoples hearing)
Link to a mouth fog horn: ( so you know what im talking about)

http://www.biasboating.com.au/Plastic_Mouth_Fog_Horn_p/2403.htm