Hoops

Kobe dies in helicopter crash, aged 41

Actually well said ME.

There's no denying the impact he had on many people. I'm not one of them, but thats ok. Even a person without any possible crimes in their background won't be universially loved - look at LeBron.

I'm by no means saying it definitely happened. I think it probably did though.

There are all kinds of different offenders out there, not all do it habitually. For his part, I think Kobe appears to have learned from the whole thing and made a real effort to be a good person afterwards.

I do think that reddit post draws some conclusions that aren't necessarily justified by the source articles, particularly on the issue of bragging about the money. However, there's certainly reasonable doubt there.

There's also not been a single other allegation, and the kinds of people who do these sorts of things tend to do them habitually as we've seen with Cosby, Spacey, CK, and so on. There's a critical mass now that makes coming forward a lot easier than back then, but even so...

Love the old "she crazy" defence.

I would say raping someone disqualifies you from being considered "great" human being yes.

If you think thats a high bar, thats on you.

Not many do.

How? Because I dont think hes a "great" man? You're applying your own bias and assuming if I don't agree then I am focussing on one thing. For me its a pretty high bar to be considered a great man. Kobe doesnt pass it.

Did they? They acknowledged he was a great player and (by all appearances) a good father.

You're the one who's focussing on the negative.

I would add that he appears to have been a great mentor to younger players and a good advocate of the women's game.

Does that make him a great human despite what happened in 2003? Thats completely subjective. I would argue no, but in no way do I throw away all of the good things he did end up doing after that.

Nah I'd say they nailed it. Listed all of the things Kobe did well, but also pointed out one thing he did not.

Great player, absolutely, great father, probably, great husband, certainly not, great human................https://time.com/5773151/kobe-bryant-rape-case-complicated-legacy/

Absurd suggestion. If it ever is changed (which it shouldn't be), Michael Jordan should be the very first choice.

I think they should change the league name to the KBA instead of the NBA

No, you're not going to get anywhere. Dying doesn't add to a legacy. Companies don't change logos on a whim to honour someone. They've build up the value in their logo over decades. They won't change it for anyone - let alone Kobe.

"Like I said, he's a legend of the game"

There are at least half a dozen others ahead of him. So again, why him?

"he just died tragically"

So someone who just died in 2020 is reason to have the logo changed forever?


"they are going to memorialise him in some way"

Yes they will. There's a good chance that a lot of teams retire one or both of his numbers. That seems like a fitting gesture.

"so why not change the logo so he is forever part of what we think of when we see the NBA."

This is problematic because of his past indescretion, and is one of the reasons it will never happen.

"How"

See Colorado, 2003.

I just realised...who's going to do Kobe's hall of fame induction speech, he fucking missed his own induction! :'(

"I'm hoping for a better reason not to rather than "its always been the logo so we can't change it""

Also, just on this, as the person proposing the change, its really on you to provide compelling reasons to do so. "He just died!" is not a compelling reason

So dying tragically makes someone more worthy of being permanently on a logo?

Logos have value. The NBA logo has immense value. Changing it risks losing that value.

It was Jordan who 'made' the modern day NBA in the 80's & 90's if the logo ever needed to be changed it should be Jordan's jumpman logo. Kobe spent his whole career trying to emulate Jordan because MJ was and still is the GOAT.

"West didn't contribute to basketball in anyway that made him more deserving of the logo either."

I never said he did, but it's where the log began, again, Kobe doesn't deserve the logo over plenty of other players. If you want to change the logo, put a jumpman logo in there cos that guy is the GOAT.

Its not about whether Kobe is more deserving than West, its about the fact that the NBA logo has been in place for decades and changing it to anyone, let alone a guy who's not even close to the best ever, is an absurd overeaction.

Yep, I'm as upset about Kobe dying as the next fan, but everyone needs to calm down, his contribution to basketball is immense yes, but not more than plenty of other players. Do something else to honour him, but don't change the logo.

Absolute no to the logo change.

The current logo is iconic and changing a brand for the 11th best player of all time? Why?

No the logo should not be changed.

Wow, still feeling pretty flat about this today, and I think it's because Basketball is one of those sports that's also a community and a culture and Kobe whether you loved him or hated him is ingrained in all those things. I don't think there is any other sport in the world where you can just go down to the park, bump into complete strangers and play a highly competitive and fun game and go away knowing you shared the same love of a sport with those strangers.

RIP Kobe and Gianna

Some very moving interviews on you tube - google them but be prepared to tear up

He clearly meant a lot to many people. My condolences to his family and fans.

That’s a nice summary for me to Isaac.

My condolences to the other families in the tragedy as well, family is family even for the not famous.

I feel like even if you weren't a Kobe "fan" as such, you still admired him.

“The NBA family is devastated by the tragic passing of Kobe Bryant and his daughter, Gianna.

“For 20 seasons, Kobe showed us what is possible when remarkable talent blends with an absolute devotion to winning. He was one of the most extraordinary players in the history of our game with accomplishments that are legendary: five NBA championships, an NBA MVP award, 18 NBA All-Star selections, and two Olympic gold medals. But he will be remembered most for inspiring people around the world to pick up a basketball and compete to the very best of their ability. He was generous with the wisdom he acquired and saw it as his mission to share it with future generations of players, taking special delight in passing down his love of the game to Gianna.

“We send our heartfelt condolences to his wife, Vanessa, and their family, the Lakers organization and the entire sports world.”

I liked Kobe a hell of a lot more when he retired. Definitely was not a fan of Kobe the player, but Kobe the father/man is a whole other story. This is the first "celebrity" death that has really hit me.

I saw him play love in his rookie season and in his retirement year, this is beyond tragic for me.

I just watched "Dear Basketball.."

Yeah, I cried. His love for the game is something we all can relate to, if not his talent.

The 1st legend of my generation to be taken. Say what you want about him, his drive to be the best and his competitiveness was second to none. His relentless pursuit of finding ways to win may never be repeated. Never cared for this Jordan vs LeBron for GOAT, but would have loved to seen prime Jordan go against prime Kobe, honestly don't know who would win.
Weird, was never a Kobe person and am a grown man but did shed a couple of years.
RIP.

He was doing heaps for Women's basketball at all levels too. His legacy permeates so much of basketball today. Imagine how many people took up basketball, played basketball and pushed themselves because of Kobe.

Got me by a few years Duke Fan, I saw my first NBA game in 1983 and was hooked on the Lakers. For whatever reason, I could not warm to Kobe like I did Magic, Worthy and Shaq but you cannot ignore Kobe's insatiable desire to be the best and his brilliance over such a long period of time. What a truly sad day, especially with kids involved.

I've been a Lakers fan since the 1st NBA game I ever watched in 1980. Kobe was one of my 2 favourite all time players. He was a mentor to so many young players, male and female. Massive loss for the basketball world and for his young daughter to be taken as well. It's beyond sad

Greatness died today. Very few human beings have the spark in them that Kobe had - the drive, the ambition, and the ability. He held himself with grace, dignity and charisma. He is a shining beacon on humanity, reminding us all what our capacities can be if we put the work in. We may never be Kobe Bryant, but we can be the Kobe Bryant of SOMETHING.

His death reminds me that I need to find my own path and mission in life. We all have one life and it may end at any moment for any reason. He left a mark on this world, and I think we should all aspire to do the same.

RIP Kobe Bryant.

Just absolutely shocked, saddened, and devastated. To all who lost their lives in this tragedy. A huge loss for the basketball world and humanity in general. Today Kobe transitions from basketball living legend, to basketball god. To all trolls and haters, stay silent. This is not your day under any circumstances. MAMBA OUT.
Rest in peace!!!

News sites now reporting that nine died in the crash.

WOW! RIP Kobe

RIP Kobe

RIP.

Absolutely shit news.

I remember seeing him a week or two ago, sitting courtside with his daughter at a game and talking to her. Obviously explaining something about the game.

They both died.

So surreal.

RIP Kobe and Gigi.

RIP, bro

RIP :(

Just read that the 3 others were the pilot, and then Giana's team mate and her parent, so two children have passed away in this. Awful.

I've never been a fan of Kobe at all, but there's no denying the impact hes had on the league over the last two decades, including inspring a bunch of current players to take up the game.

The real tragedy is for his family, losing not only him but his daughter, and the families of the other people onboard.

Just had a daughter born to him and his wife too. Harsh.

Sadly it does seem like one daughter was involved too.

Horrible. Hoping his daughters weren't on board with him.