Hoops

Greatest NBL import ever

And we've overlooked Bruce Bolden

Great thread. I have been fortunate to follow the NBL since inception - was at the very first Sydney Astronauts game (vs Glenelg from memory) and have been involved in varying capacities ever since. So many great names posted (and forgotten) above. From "one season wonders" to imports that ended up naturalised there are so many criteria and wonderful players that have passed through our league. Early imports that dominated from my recollection - guys like Owen Wells (I think the first NBA drafted player in NBL?), Mike Jones, Stormin Norman Taylor, Jerry Everett, Wayne McDaniel to current era players like Casey Prather (pre-injury), James Ennis etc. Personally my favourite imports all time would be, in no particular order, Leroy Loggins, the great Cal Bruton (can't recall his name above but has contributed so much to NBL and Australian society in general), Dwayne McLain. Finally, Bryce Cotton. IMO he is already up there with the greatest NBL players of all-time. I find his skills breath taking and the ease with which he plays the game is astounding. He rarely complains to refs and just gets on with it. My apologies to so many other great players I have missed - I am sure there are many more we could add. Another good thread a bit further on - maybe the off-season to keep some interest - would be the greatest and favourite Australian player off all-time

Rocky Smith from St Kilda, saw him play he could certainly score. Owen Wells and also Dwain McClain. All three would be up there.

Another consideration in judging longevity is that imports from bygone years were not/no-longer NBA prospects like so many are today.

My point is that now-a-days, many imports are still chasing their dreams. "Back then," imports may have chosen NBL as their best remaining options rather than, "a couple of years in Oz and I'll be NBA ready".

Cal Bruton prime example. Have heard that he was working outside of basketball when was given the NBL-lifeline. His choice was play NBL here or back to riding on garbage trucks in NYC. Had he gone back to USA we could have talked about him being GOAT garbage-man ever.

DiDi, Ball, Thompson and also Craig and Ennis are the other end of the equation. Doesn't matter how good they were/are, they're never going to qualify (longevity-wise) 'cos they're too good before they even get here.

Might be interesting, and less judgemental, if we just find the import with the best single-year stats. That way, we also eliminate the arguements re rule changes, opposition, etc, of then and now. The only irregularity in this stat's-based format would be 48 mins v 40 mins. Games of (nearly) 5 quarters(?????) instead of 4.

Went to my first NBL game in 1986. Seen a few imports come and go.

For short tenures, you cannot go past Doug Overton, James Ennis, Chris Williams, Norman Taylor, Steve Carfino in his Hobart stint, Paul Stanley and my favourite short time import - Tim Dillon (NM 1988-1989), holy crap could he play. An early three point shooting big who could score from anywhere).

As for longevity, it's hard to go past Loggins, Grace, Crawford, Fisher, D-Mac, Rucker, Copeland, Rose, Colbert, Green, the list just goes on.

My pick though is Mark Davis and that hurts as a Perth fan who idolised James Crawford. Davis never took a night off, was barely 6'7" in high heels and just DOMINATED the glass. An absolute beast. Loved the way that bloke played.

Can't wait for PeterJohn to chime in.

I still have Leroy Loggins as number 1 import,

The others in the mix which Cotton is apart of for me are

Al Green
Mark Davis
Scott Fisher
Rob Rose
Lanard Copeland
Kevin Lisch
Cedric Jackson (The Breakers version)
Brye Cotton

So Cotton due to longevity isnt quite the best for most fans, but if you look at his individual talent and the fact he is arguably playing in the toughest era, and crazy amount of winning, you could very much argue he is the GOAT import, even if he isnt quite at the top he is in the top 10 and rising every year he stays in the NBL

If you just look at talent and completely ignore longevity guys like Ennis, Childress, Donta Smith, Chris Williams would need to be added to the list

Rose was my favourite player of all time who wasn't a Wildcat, absolute jet.

How's about Cal Bruton, fairly large contribution to the NBL without the same success as the others.

all those awards that you mention were done by aussie al green, naturalised

I would think Al Green should be brought into this conversation.

2× NBL champion (1982, 1986)
NBL Most Valuable Player (1982)
2× All-NBL First Team (1981, 1985)
3× NBL All-Star Game (1982, 1988, 1991)
NBL scoring champion (1984)
First player to score 3,000 points in the NBL (1985)
Australian Basketball Hall of Fame inductee (1999

Personally I think he could have had more personal achievements if his off court theatrics and he lowered his ego. Still, I think his ego is what made him so good!

If no minimum tenure requirement :
- Childress
- Chris Williams.
- Ennis
- Cotton.
- Honorary mention for Hopson if we could see 1 full season of him.

If there is a min tenure :
- Copeland.
- Loggins
- Rucker
- Grace
- Fisher
- Crawford
- Honorary mention Mee and Mark Davis.

With that in mind, I can't go past Loggins:
20 seasons, 550+ games, 3 times MVP, NBL 1st team multiple times, IIRC 2nd highest scorer in the NBL. Plus also won DPoTY a couple of times.

"Who's the best Wildcats guard ever, Grace or Cotton?"

Grace again due to longevity, but even Grace has said Cotton will overtake him.

Scott Christopherson. End thread.

Who's the best Wildcats guard ever, Grace or Cotton?

I'd have Grace over Rucker, otherwise looks right, Cotton prob bumps Copeland at his current trajectory. Feel Grace impacted his teammates more.

Cotton is not necessarily miles clear of Cedric Jackson who had a very concentrated impact on the NBL and success of the Breakers before things went south.

My favorite import of all time is Jim Havrilla lol

Forgot about Tucker and Jackson, how about Timmons and...Trimingham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jermaine Beal deserves a spot in that list.

Last 20 years- since that’s how long I’ve been watching NBL regularly. Anyone pre-2000 I only saw glimpses of.

This is purely from memory in 5 minutes, without looking at stats or NBL first team lists (To avoid spending 2 hours putting my list together!).

Must have played multiple seasons- so this excludes Ennis, Powell, Wethers, Chris Williams, Donta Smith, Wilbekin etc.

Cotton
Jackson
Ware
Lisch
Randle
Prather
Redhage
Dave Thomas
Ere
Homicide Williams

Honorable mentions: Tucker, Patterson, Franklin, Boone, Wilkinson

But, Cotton is the greatest import of the past 20 years. Ahead of Ware, Randle, Jackson, Lisch, Ere, Redhage, Williams, Patterson, Thomas, probably others who I can’t recall off the top….

I hope he sticks around like Redhage and Lisch- not enough of that in the past 20 years.

This reminds me of a discussion point from a few years ago...

https://nbl.com.au/news/article/cedric

If you took the first 4 seasons of Loggins, D-Mac, Davis, Fisher Grace, etc and then compare to Cotton's first 3.5 seasons, I suspect Loggins would be comparable, and some others not far behind. Loggins won an MVP early on, D-Mac I think finished 2nd in the MVP? Both won championships, all-NBL first teams

And those guys played another 10+ years

So basically, if Cotton's next 3.5 years are anything like his first 3.5 then he'll be in the discussion. But right now, no way he's ahead of these legends who played for 15 years.

Yeah, we don't talk about the NBA GOAT as someone who had 1 good season, so why are we taking that into account here?

Stephen Jackson often gets mentioned in lists like these, but only on the basis of what he went on to be. His NBL career was negligible.

For me personally, being called the greatest in the NBL needs an element of sustained performance so I would rule out any one-season wonders.

Its hard to compare between eras. Different rules, different situations. The guys in the 80's were semi pro - working full time jobs as well as playing and training. Today's guys who don't have any other distractions from basketball would kill them

I probably wouldn't pick Williams to build a team around.

An alternative look at it might be to say "You can pick any import in their NBL prime to build a team around. Who do you choose?" Adjust for the modern game. 'Prime' would presumably preclude someone like Stephen Jackson. 'Build a team around' might preclude someone like Carlos Powell who was a bit of a force but generally at the expense of team chemistry. I missed the year Chris Williams played but he's often spoken of as a candidate for this sort of thing.

look in here https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/14022-great-nbl-imports/#p451190

Loggins comfortably.

But in the 20 yrs i've watched the NBL, Cotton is clearly the best import i've seen. He's genuine NBA quality, and im talking 20-25 mins per game type NBA quality.

He is too undersized for the NBA as a 2 guard. This is why the Jazz waived him.

Childress must be put in the conversation just for his productivity but really I would say LC, Leroy and the Alabama Slammer

I think if they naturalise it adds to their legacy and has to be included.

I think it needs to include longevity as that's part of the media argument currently, so it would have to include accolades, championships, career stats, single season stats etc.

*Mee & Ere

Good add with Copeland and Thomas.

Was Mee Ere in the league long enough? Remember they were good, but didn't think they were around for more than a few years?

Sixers MVP night tomorrow night. Who is your tip?

To help with your choice, the key stats:

Johnson 16.5 ppg, 8 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.5 spg
Gibson 11.9 / 3.8 / 5.0 / 0.8
Petrie 10.8 / 6.0 / 1.1 /0.5
Weigh 10.2 / 5.9 / 1.5 / 0.4
Schensh 9.0 / 6.1 / 1.9 / 0.8
Cadee 8.0 / 2.3 /2.6 / 0.5
MC 5.8/2.6/0.5/0.8
CJ 4.1/0.9/0.2/0.4
NC 3.1/1.1/1.7/0.3
SC 2.9/1.9/0.4/0.1
TD 2.6/1.1/0.9/0.4
JW 1.0/0.7/0.3/0.0
PV 0.8/0.8/0.2/0.1

I think the only awards are:

MVP; Best Defensive Player.

The stats are pretty close, but DJ stands out from most.