Hoops

Moldovan blasts Players' Association

What if they are right?

Force majure, this is the term used by the nbl to allow contracted players to take pay cuts. Same applies for all.

"You're an idiot." This from the person who thinks AFL is covered from a Hub.

You're an idiot.

Play out of local gyms till social distancing is not required, tell the blood sucking stadium owners to shove it till all is clear.

#80491 Rent seeking landlords and their management companies are the parasitic leeches of economies. If the recent Covid crisis has not demonstrated that to you, with wage earners, small business owners and everyone taking a haircut while management companies try every standover tactic in the book to ensure they don't lose commission I am not sure what will.

Stadium operators are not that much different from residential real estate operators in their mindset. I can see them holding NBL teams to full rates.

Jo
I think Moldovan would have more idea of how the league is going than you. I find it amazing that teams can’t get out of stadium deals and play in smaller stadium to limit costs but players who are under contract take large reductions.
I want to see basketball on my tv if it can’t be live and quality players earn what they are entitled to.

Sounds like Mark Cowan.

#805468 fair enough with the year range, those were some dark days for the NBL commercially. Rick Burton lol. At least it wasn't in the league's heyday or now under LK.

Although a similar comment is entirely possible from the stronger eras with the sheer amount of owners who have come and gone. NBL never change.

I am not able to reveal that. However I can say that they owned during 2000 to 2010. There were multiple parties who had ownership stakes for exactly on 3 years during that time so it provides context without giving away the identity.

Which owner?

Yeah ask Fiddes who much money he lost in 3? NBL teams. Back in those days the salary cap was under $1mill then!

#805445 - mate in theory I agree with you, but this league is the plaything of those type of bosses and people don't get into the NBL to make money.

As a former team owner told me "the worst decision I made in my life was buying a NBL team." He had the license for 3 years.

Any look at the history of NBL ownership shows what the financials of the league are. You don't see many coaches holding onto licenses for a long time.

So, no proof of losses.

It’s like all the bosses I worked for never made a profit, total BS of course. It’s how millionaires become billionaires, screw everyone.

The hawks lost half a million last season running last is the story out Illawarra with poor crowds at home, Ball was more popular at away games, so if this is the worst team playing out of a stadium that over charges you for rental, food etc, there imports also being a joke and not attracting supporters etc, the league is no way as bad as we are now suddenly lead to believe.

In the end it’s no skin off my nose but as usual it’s the players that bring people through the door that suffer. Owners, bosses always seem to not take a hit.

Anyone who been involved in the league, or followed it closely for a long time knows it loses a heap of money. What that exact figure is, is rather irrelevant. There's a few figures I know over the years but some people don't want to seem to believe them so no point listing them here.

Clubs were probably in the best shape they have ever been due to higher income streams and stable ownership. Doesn't mean they were making a profit.

The NBL was at a point where they have increased revenues, and if they could find a way to strip away some costs with efficiencies they would make the whole thing stable.

Unfortunately Covid-19 has wrecked the income streams and now it's in a fight for survival again.

Yea exactly

Self interest at its finest

The only proof we have of losses is the Australian article with some quotes from owners saying clubs lost 15-20 mil last season

The narrative has always been basically every club loses money

And further proof is the constant ownership changes and struggles and the amount of clubs that have folded or gone very close over the years

In fact I'm yet to see a season where atleast one club wasn't in financial trouble

Can someone supply proof that clubs lost 15 to 20 million. Has the league released any legit information on this, or is this in the make up as you go category.

Twelve months ago we were told clubs were in great shape. I remember reading that even Cairns who spend less than all other clubs but had balanced there books. If it is the big spending clubs getting into debt, let there owners pay, not the players.

Perth and Sydney have already said they were happy to stay as is, so who is losing this money.

"Number 10 and 11 earn 60 grand. It's not all on big money."

Have the rules changed? Maybe I have missed that? I thought the rule was that the bottom 5 players had to be paid $400+k between them? Please enlighten me. Clealry Kobe can't

Players got told take the cut or no league, yeh great options. No one saw any financials to see who was bull shiting. We been told great league, buy a team at 10 million, 2nd best league in the world, go over the salary cap as much as you want, you would think it was in great shape, owned and run by millionaires with money in the bank. Proof is it’s still in the shape it was and the players pay. Smoke and mirrors.

45 of the 50 players under contract voted to remain and accept these cuts. A very small number of players, nearly all at the highest end of the salary scale, opted out. Players themselves recognised that the league is going to be on life support in 20-21 and that there are precious few other options out there, particularly if COVID 19 isn't going away soon (which seems likely). I for one won't be upset if 4 highly paid superstars + Matt hodgson look elsewhere if it means the league survives the next year or 2. If Daniel Moldovan wants to stir up shit because he can't accept a salary cut I couldn't care less, and any enraged "journalists" who are parroting the same nonsense without commenting on the obvious bias in their sources needs to take a good long look at themselves and work out if this is really the job for them.

I said an even percentage across the board, you took 50% from 60g, where as now the lose nothing.

If you can’t live off the wage get a real job.

Koberulz works for the nbl.
You talk so much crap and don’t read very well. I said an even percentage across the board, you took 50% from 60g, where as now the lose nothing. 20% off the top earners and all even down the list. If you can’t live off the wage get a real job. Clubs that employ Bogut, Cotton, Ware work for clubs that can afford to pay them.

Ah, the LALALALALAICANTHEARYOUA argument.

The cuts should have been equal across the board, not 50% for the top earners and nil for the bottom.

Number 10 and 11 earn 60 grand. It’s not all on big money.

Who earns 60K on an NBL team?

"while most bench players are forced to pay the club in order to get a roster spot?" Citation needed.

It's not a social under 10 league where you share the time.

of you are losing money lose a bit more, if you’re braking even invest a bit. Simple business practices.

the better quality players the more the crowds the more the money.

It’s not a social under 10 league where you share the time. Fuck me Cotton earns hundreds of thousands because he a champion, what you suggesting that the 10/11 man should not have there wages cut but Cotton has to cop a 50% cut. We might as well go back to communism in the USSR and share the money. Good luck with getting any decent players staying or playing in Australia. Just an example a player on 100g package is now on 70g, 10g more than the 10/11 man on 60g who’s had no reduction to his wage. Now that’s fair, lol.

The Italian league was getting to the pointy end of the season where crowds and support get better, the money end of the season.

While personally believe the league has been great under the owners this decision reeks of do what you’re told take what you get. Moldovan is on the money, the players are the reason crowds go watch, the better quality players the more the crowds the more the money. This is retrograde to the league.

If the league owners have been chucking lots of money or small amounts or none, who knows, this should not to be the time to cut massively as it takes time to get the product to where it was and the support back, of you are losing money lose a bit more, if you’re braking even invest a bit. Simple business practices.

Comparing the Italian League's closure to the NBL is pointless.
They suspended the season on the 9th of March and they abandoned it on the 8th of April, they lost a total of 7 weeks because the season was supposed to end on the 26th anyway.
It's a bit of a difference in losing a third of the season or the whole season, i'd say that's why there was only a 20% cut, nothing to do with fairness.

That's a conclusive win for the owners, at guess probably both Perth reps voted against and one other

a percentage cut through all players evenly would have been fair for all players if it was required.

The players were involved but lacked the presence of negotiation skills and got screwed over by the league owners. Each club had two representatives who went back to their own players with reporting and I think there were phone hook ups. The final vote in favour of the pay cuts was 15 to 3. That’s a conclusive win for the owners, at guess probably both Perth reps voted against and one other. Again I’m not certain who the players association had with them in meetings, if anyone, I’d of thought they should’ve had a minimum of legal representation but I don’t know. Imo the whole think wasn’t thought out that well and a percentage cut through all players evenly would have been fair for all players if it was required. An example of this is the Italian league did not finish so all players lost 20% of their salary, which seems a lot fairer. You earn 50g you end up with 40g, 500g you end up with 400g, you would think this was a lot fairer to all.

Imo in a nut shell Moldovan was right and the league scared the players into draconian cuts. Ask yourself would Cotton excepted a cut of between 10% to 20% and stayed or copped 50% and bolted.

Player association seemed a bit of joke to not have consulted with players or clubs in the discussion

Not sure if allowing 100 people or even 1000 to mix makes any difference, there is an interstate travel ban in place, teams can't travel.
McGowan stated that he won't relax the ban for footy, doubt he will do it for basketball.
The option is to create a hub in a state where games could be played, but that would mean that most teams will miss out on revenues, but would carry the costs.
Some probably would suggest an "equalization" scheme where all revenue is pooled and divided, however, that won't help the Wildcats, they would lose out on the revenue for 12,000 paying fans plus memberships, so that won't happen.

The government relaased a 3 stage plan and the last stage was allowing gatherings of up to 100 people. I don't think we'll be seeing full crowds this season, so revenues are going to take a big hit.

The old NBLPA has always been a joke and current form seems to be too. I certainly read somewhere, true or not that the players were never consulted.

Player association seemed a bit of joke to not have consulted with players or clubs in the discussion. Seemed like they rubber stamped the whole thing. Thats not an association I would want representing me.

If it had been handled properly the players themselves would have been part of the process , informed, asked for feedback etc. Instead it came as a bit of surprise for clubs, players, fans.

What a joke.

LV

I think I can answer that a bit. In South Australia, yes everyone has reverted to norm. Our shopping centers are packed. A bit different in Victoria where people are still getting pulled over for going for a drive.

If other states get it under control like SA has there won't be much change to behaviour. Economic effects however are the great unknown right now.

Will Cotton have a ,"NBL out clause" in any European contract? Seriously.

$30k+ for a box at United. How many companies will be jumping at that. Have the NBL clubs dropped sponsorship packages? Will sponsors be jumping at the chance to sponsor the NBL without imports?

Lots of assumptions being made by Moldovan and also by a few people here.

Lots of unknowns with this virus. And lots of unknowns around the economic impact, both here and in Europe.

I'm not feeling bullish that Australia will go back to anything approaching "normal" by NBL time, at least not with huge public gatherings.

And the elephant in the room is this. Has the virus changed the way we think? As in, even when things go back to "normal" and pro sports resumes scheduling as before, will there be a lingering effect? Will there be a permanent drop in crowds resulting from fear about the virus? I'm not sure either way but it seems a possibility.

Once we are closer to the season and for example the only restriction is that their has to be a seat between fans or family groups, can their be another negotiation to increase wages again?

I agree that they jumped the gun so far out from the season. Once we are closer to the season and for example the only restriction is that their has to be a seat between fans or family groups, can their be another negotiation to increase wages again? Revenue from sponsorship may drop but it looks like they already factored that in. Teams like Perth will lose out there because they have packed stadiums but it would be business as normal in terms of numbers for teams like Hawks.
And will imports view Australia as a viable place to place with paycut the sacrifice for playing in maybe safest and best international competition.
I think next stars will be particularly be looking here. NBA is splashing the cash with G League, but I'm sure parents might have a say in their kid leaving the hell hole in America and being safe here as well as getting a wage. Also shoe money would be in US dollars. And parents/families I'm sure will apply to come here. And how will colleges even handle the situation, pressure will be on NCAA to play but who knows where America will be in 4 months time.

An article from the Australian, it’s like believing in Santa, and a the owner admitting they made money,lol. I worked for 30 years for one company and they were going broke every year but always had enough money 300k cars boats etc.

The players are the entertainment and got screwed.

right now we are mostly likely going to provide an inferior on court product to last year.

Considering the ABPA's Board, leadership, delegates and staff are 95% made up of current and former players, this guy is obviously all about self interest. Because he will get a percentage of his players' wages, it means a 50% pay cut for the players is a 50% pay cut for him. Get over it dickwad.

Not really.

I am on the fence on this one.

Half of me recognises that the roster building starts now not in 7 months so some certainty by the league and the teams is required.

You can't have no change , go as is, then in 6 months half the teams can't afford full pay or go into VA.

The other half thinks waiting a little longer could have been more prudent, right now we are mostly likely going to provide an inferior on court product to last year.

Basically the only team in the league that turns a profit is Perth

But when asked if team owner Jack Bendat, a member of The List – Australia’s Richest 250, makes a profit, Georgiu says: “We get pretty close to break even if we can host one or two grand final games. We’re pretty close otherwise and we have some terrific support from our sponsors and our fans.”

In other words, the Wildcats have to make the playoffs — and they have for 34 consecutive years — to prevent Bendat digging deep into his pockets to make up a shortfall.

How do you know all teams lose money, I can assure you Smith didn’t buy the kings to lose money. Melbourne also have done well. It’s all a ploy to keep everyone under the thumb of the league.

The Players Association represents the best interests of all the players this agent only represents his clients and of course himself sounds a bit shitty that he too will be effectively taking a 50% pay cut.

Unlike this agent the PA has to look at the big picture and that is ensuring teams don't fold because then all contracts become null and void and those players won't get paid at all.

Basically the only team in the league that turns a profit is Perth all the other teams lose money for their owners and the only reason the teams don't fold is because those owners make their money in other businesses.

Those businesses have been severely impacted by the coronavirus so if NBL spends continued as normal it wouldn't take much for 2-3 maybe even 4 owners to pull out hand back their NBL licences like one owner has already done this offseason and the league would be in serious trouble.

That is why all the players have been asked to take 40-50% pay cuts this season to try and stop half the NBL teams from folding until things start to return to normal in 2021.

Agents should be seen but not heard and this guy rocks the boat enough using Olgun as his mouthpiece and is now attacking the Players Association who are charged with a bit more responsibility than him. Parasites like him should be grateful he's still got players with salaries to leech off of.